The Internet Shiki Haiku Salon
The Shiki Team Research Trip to the U.S. in September, 1998

Sept. 4 Leave Narita and Arrive at Los Angeles
Stay : in Los Angeles CA 9/4-9/6

Sept. 5 Meet American poets and his friends at the Los Angeles Consul
General’s Official Residence

Sept. 6 (Los Angeles to Atlanta, Arrive at 20:30 )

Depart from Atlanta 21:55PM

Arrive at Albany at 23:55
Stay: in Schenectady NY 9/6-9/7

Sept. 7 Go to Union College in Schenectady
Meet Prof.Yu Chang (The Shiki Internet Haiku Contest Winner) and
Prof.Hilary Tann(Speciality is Music and she is interested in
Japanese bamboo flute)

Sept. 8 Stay: in Boston 9/8-9/9
Leave Albany 4264 1:55 PM Albany (ALB) 2:50 PM Boston (BOS)
Arrive at Boston

Sept. 9 night Meet Mr. Paul David Mena
(Shiki List Member, Poet, Haiku Poet)

Sept. 10 Leave Boston for Washington D.C.
Delta Airline 4461 9:30 AM Boston (BOS)
11:35 AM Washington-Reagan National
Arrive at Washington D.C.
Stay: in Washington 9/10-9/11

Sept. 11 Meet Ms. Kristen Deming (president of HSA)
in Washington D.C.

Sept. 12 Leave Washington at 6:40 a.m. via Portland
Delta Airline 427 6:40 AM Washington-Dulles (IAD)

Sept. 13 Arrive at Narita 15:25 p.m.


Purpose:

interview several haiku poets and leading Shiki-list members to investigate haiku development and Internet influence on haiku in the US.

Visit people
Mr. Peter Luvitt and his friends in Los Angeles, Professor Yu Chang (Shiki List member, the 2nd and 3rd Shiki Internet Haiku Contest winner) and his colleagues in Schenectady Mr. Paul Mena (Engineer, Shiki-list member in Boston, Ms. Andrea C. Missius (the1st Shiki Internet Haiku Contest winner, Shiki-list member), and Mrs. Kristen Deming (HSA president)


Travel Journal

September 4: Departure from Narita

First visit to U.S. !! I was a little nervous. We took the DELTA Airline flight, because it was the cheapest. No wonder their service was just plain and the flight attendants never once smiled. I missed the JAL's attendants’ smile, even if it was a forced commercial one.

The first key word I happened to encounter to understand American culture: plain

haiku

floating far above
beyond the sea of cloud

a silver summer moon








 

September 4 Arrival at Los Angeles Airport

The inside of the airport building was a little dark because it was so crowded with so many people from various countries. The airport is situated in an open field surrounded by some new buildings under construction. There were many construction cranes. It looked like a new space station in a desert. The sky was unexpectedly cloudy. The taxi was old and shabby, but it ran very fast with with a roaring sound. Our first step on the U.S. was at the mixed cultural town Little Tokyo,where my college senior Mr. Kitaoka made arrangements at Hotel New Ohtani. We had expected a bright blue Californian sky, but Los Angeles was humid and covered with clouds due to El Nino. Instead we could see more beautiful reddish pink Indian lilac blossoms here and there.




September 5 At the Los Angeles Japanese Consul General's official residence

On the way to the consul general's residence, we passed several ethnic towns, Little Tokyo, Korean, Italian or Indian? And we arrived at a beautiful large white house in a big greensward. We met Mrs. Yachi (the consul general's wife), Mr. and Mrs. Luvitt ( poet, and woman doctor), Mr. Muraoka (music composer) and Mrs. Muraoka, Mr. Kitaka (president of JATV) , and Mr. Enami (consul)
Topics: Japanese culture, traditional Japanese haiku, Basho and Issa, History of American poetry, American Haiku.
We had very exciting and interesting talks on Japanese literature, American literature, American society, many things about haiku, Basho and Issa and so forth. Mr. Peter Luvitt published several poetry books and is very interested in Japanese culture. He has already written several short poems which could be referred to as haiku.
We also talked about several poets like Walt Whitman, Allen Ginsberg and William Carlos Williams. Williams is the poet who was so insistent on finding an American speech and rhythm with which American poets could tell their lives and no longer rely on the inherited patterns of speech and rhythm from England and Europe at large. He is the poet who was a pediatrician for 50 years and said, that he got his poems out of the mouths of the Polish mothers whose children he treated.
We exchanged our ideas on the comparison of Japanese and American cultures. I talked about Issa and Basho and what Basho wanted to express in his haiku , and American guests talked about Alan Ginsberg's influence on American poetry. He may have been a founder of American haiku.
The lunch served at the gorgeous room at the consul general's residence was so special and we were waited on by the two gentle waiters of the consul general. The topics of conversation were high-toned cultural and literary, so I was nervous and very excited, and I felt as if I was at a diplomatic luncheon party. After lunch we enjoyed tea in the beautiful garden.

In Los Angeles, Hiroko and I visited the Universal Studio where we had a very exciting tour of famous American movie sets. In the late afternoon we had a short sightseeing walk on our own around the town of Little Tokyo. All the streets and the tall buildings looked gray, dull and lifeless partly because it was under the cloudy sky and partly because the town was designed for a car-oriented society. I couldn’t help sensing a kind of tense feeling caused by heterogeneous cultures other than warm hearted local culture. Mr. Kitaoka invited us to dinner at a beautiful club in a skyscraper. He is a member of the club. We enjoyed the tasty California wine and dishes and beautiful night view from the tall window. After dinner we dropped in at his place which is also on the high floor of the tall building. He said he had another two more appointments that night, so he was going to have another drink with those people later. He had to overwork to cope with the business society in this competitive city. The city never seemed to be sleep. The night view may have been a symbol of a struggling society.
 
The second key word to understand American Culture: mixed

haiku:
red Indian lilacs
in a blaze
at twilight of a melting pot
of ethnic cultures

September 7 at Schenectady

We left Los Angeles. The domestic section of the Airport had been renovated and was very modern and beautiful.
Arrived at Atlanta Airport. Got together with Prof. Sumioka and Mr. Inoue. The schedule was very tight and we were afraid we might have been unable to get together. The two gentlemen looked exhausted. They had flown straight from Narita to Atlanta and said that the flight had been terribly cold, physically and emotionally.

About two hours later we were again on our way to Albany Airport. We arrived at the airport at midnight. Despite the late arrival, Yu Chang and Larry were kind enough to pick us up at the airport. I saw a beautiful yellow ball in the sky. It was an American full moon. The moon looked different from the moon in Japan. My image of the moon was a round tray with shadows of some rabbits and it is sometimes a human face, but this time the moon was really a ball and it was floating. It was like inviting us to play balls. Now I can understand why US people are eager to send astronauts to the space to investigate the yellow ball. They want to play ball. Yu and Larry were very friendly. They are intelligent university people who live in the country-side in the States. Thanks to them I was gradually relax.

The hotel, which was introduced by Yu, was not so big but it was neat and cozy. It was a simple American style hotel. Although it was very late midnight, we wanted to take a shower and feel refreshed, but to our great disappointment, we could not have hot water. Since Yu had paid the hotel room fee, we thought we should not complain of that inconvenience, and we gave up bathing in the tub, and only washed our face with cold water and went to sleep. To tell the truth, the next day we found we should have turned the faucet clockwise until the water became hot water. At dawn there was a thunder storm.

haiku:
midnight thunder storm
lit up the windows of the rural hotel
in a foreign country
The sky was not really clear next morning. Wasn't it because of El Nino?

The weather was similar to our rainy season. We had a real American style breakfast at the hotel, then Yu came to pick us up to go to Union College. We drove through old towns developed and later deserted by General Motors.

Union College is the oldest historical college in the state of New York. We walked in the campus in the fine rain falling now and then. There bloomed pale pink roses of Sharon here and there. They had a beautiful memorial dome. Inside of the dome it was full of oriental color and the ceiling was made after a beautiful cobalt universe with colorful bright stars in it.

Some squirrels were hopping about and they climbed up and hid behind the branch of the tree in the campus.

haiku: at the dome of the Union College

looking up
the lapis lazuli ceiling
the summer trip

We were introduced to Yu's colleagues at the student center. They are all friendly professors of the engineering department. One of them is a Japanese professor who is teaching Japanese. We stood in a line to take several kinds of food together with the students. We talked about Japanese culture, haiku, and Japanese teaching over lunch. I could feel the American college student center atmosphere and then I thought I was in a film of the TV Beverly Hills story. After lunch Yu and Larry drove us to the Albany State Museum through a
misty rain. It is huge. We saw the history of the American Indian and early American. The exhibits and models, everything was huge. One section may be equivalent to the whole building of our Prefectural Museum, which cost 16 billion yen.



The building was opposite the State Government Office. There was a huge shallow pool and a huge Egg between the two buildings. We walked beside the pool to a big modern building. It was a theater called the Egg. Under the pool and the Egg was a very large parking lot. We almost lost our way, because it is so bug. Even Larry could not find the exit.

The third key word: huge
The misty drizzle was going to stop in the late afternoon. We were taken to Hilary's place in the suburbs. Hilary is a music professor at Union College and she was once in Japan to practice shakuhachi, a bamboo flute, so she is quite interested in traditional Japanese culture. She is now influenced by Yu and very interested in haiku. They often enjoy taking a walk along the river and composing haiku. Her haiku posted to the Internet Shiki-list biweekly kukai often receives good points, and also she was the second prize winner of the 2nd Shiki Contest. She welcomed us with a big smile and her graceful collie dog, Anna. Her house is a country style log house in the large stretch of greensward. Neat and tidy. She said she could see squirrels and even deer in the garden. There are several big holes made by woodpeckers in the logs outside. The atmosphere was just like a scene of the book , " The little House in the Prairie”. Of course her house is bigger than Laura's. Just above her bed there is a small skylight. She can sleep under the starlight.


A poet who lives in New York, Clark , who composes 5-7-5 syllable haiku and trains his students in a way of Zen Buddhism, joined us. We enjoyed wine and haiku talks. Yu had first posted a haiku to me and asked me to give him comment on his haiku, then he began to learn a lot about haiku through the Internet Shiki list. He was the winner of the 2nd Shiki Haiku Contest and now he is one of the leading Shiki members. I was asked some questions about traditional haiku regulations. I wished I could have practiced haiku more before. Since Yu is now leading biweekly kukai in the Shiki list with the cooperation of Hiromi, Yu and Hiromi were already good net friends and Yu was pleased to meet Hiromi and they looked like real brothers.

Yu, Hilary and Clark are all sincere haiku lovers and they are eager to learn real traditional haiku spirit.

September 8


Yu invited us to a country farm breakfast. It was a lovely fine day.
We had a brunch at a terrace in a country house in the suburbs. Some bees were leisurely flying over the dishes and big dogs were gently looking at the guests beside the terrace. The food was nice and the salad and fruit juice were good. Apart from the good meal we were grateful to Yu for his friendly welcome. We felt very familiar to American people. He took us to the Airport again and was with us until we were really on board. I also felt we had known each other for a long time. Three months later, on Christmas Day I received a splendid Christmas gift from him. Beautiful roses and white gypsophs!!

On the way to the airport, the roads were fringed by abundant natural beauty, and we couldn’t help thinking of how the state government could administrate to maintain the nature as it was.

At the check-in counter, there was a problem with the tickets for Sumi and Hiromi. They were double booked and the computer could not find seats for them. It must have been the travel agent or DELTA's fault. After some negotiation they managed to get the tickets to Boston. Finally we said good by to Yu and we were all on board a propeller-driven plane.


We had a fine view of the east coast through floating clusters of soft white clouds all the way to Boston. Sometimes the plane flew into a big cloud, when the plane bobbed and the pretty flight attendant fell on her backside. Some people by the window saw the Statue of Liberty far away very small.

The fourth key word: friendly

September 8 noon : Arrive at Boston Airport

At the check-in counter we tried to confirm our return ticket from Washington to Narita. Surprisingly enough, the tickets prepared by the travel agent in Japan turned out to be of no use. The computer would not accept any key operation made by the clerk. Who should be blamed? We got angry and forced the clerk to get the seats for them. I remained at the counter and entreated the young man to help us return to Japan together. He tried all he could and at last he managed to arrange tickets by way of different direction to Portland, then from Portland we would catch the same plane to Narita.

Anyway we were relieved and decided to have lunch at the airport. We should not miss the famous Samuel Adam's beer and the clam chowder. Both were very good.


Finally we got to the Youth Hostel. It was a Hostel not a hotel. It was Professor Sumi's first hostel experience in all his life. He seemed very uneasy. He had to share the bedroom with Hiromi and other two strangers. Hiroko and I shared a special room. We saw only young travelers there. Besides some of them looked like hippies.
In the evening we took a walk near the hostel to find a good restaurant. The streets were still sometimes crowded and we felt a noisy daytime smell and dust drifting in the air. Somewhat dangerous. We could not find good, comfortable restaurants near by, so we finally went into a hamburger shop and bought hamburgers back to our room. There was a liquor shop near the hostel.


Sumi and Hiromi came in our women’s room, which was not so bad as their room. We had a picnic-like supper in the dim light. The rooms of the hostel are only for sleeping. The suitcase laid on the floor was our dinner table. Over the hamburger and cheap wine and canned beers we talked and laughed until really midnight. Most of us except for Hiromi were procrastinating getting into the small bunk bed. The most inconvenient was to share a bathroom with other hostlers, both men and women. Hiromi had a most shocking experience in the shower room. Guess what!! Any way the night in the YH will be an unforgettable memory for us.

September 9
The bunk bed was so hard and small that I could sleep well and I was just dozing, so I was very sleepy this morning , but I forced myself to wake up . We went to the Boston Museum. It took us around 30 minutes to walk there from the hostel. The tree-lined streets to the museum were good. The buildings along the streets were all in the neo- classical British style. As we were in a fresh morning air, it was a pleasant walk.


Far from Japan in Boston we saw ancient Japanese paintings and ukiyoe. We also looked at many famous western paintings which had been influenced by the old Japanese artists. We bought museum goods at the museum shop. We had lunch at the museum restaurant and again I faced the key word, "huge". The sandwich was huge. It was a good idea for Hiroko and I to share a sandwich.

Sumi looked really exhausted. He had not been sleeping well so far. Hiromi sneezed loudly and it made Sumi wake up. Only Sumi decided to go back to the hostel to sleep again. He has a beard and moustache and is heavy built, so he looks a strong and happy-go-lucky person, but apparently he is sensitive and delicate. While Hiroko and I were out in the town, he slept alone in our bedroom.
Hiroko and I took the subway to the center of the city. There were so many tall buildings along the city streets , but they are well designed and go with the streets. The city is full of people and cars. Sea gulls fly near the subway station. We can walk around the city, so it is more human- oriented and vigorous than Los Angeles. Besides the city has a longer history than Los Angeles? The city reminded me of London.

We invited Mr. Paul Mena to dinner at a good bar restaurant. He is a successful computer engineer and one of the leading Shiki-list members. He is an Spanish American and very handsome. He recommended the restaurant. It was a very nice modern American club with jazz. The customers were likely to be sophisticated business people. It was also another aspect of modern fashionable American society. The food was very good and the beer had a fragrant smell. We talked about the Shiki-list and haiku and many cultural things. I really had a good time, good food, beer and talks in a good place.
haiku:

at Boston
scents of beer melts
into the sound of jazz

September 10 From Boston to Washington

We finally managed to land at Washington-Reagan National Airport.We had crossed over the North American Continent!! Mrs. Kristen Deming, president of HSA waited for us at the arrival lobby. I had met her in Japan before when she visited Matsuyama as a leader of HSA group tour. She was wearing a rose pink hat and a dark blue suit. She is a pretty and intelligent lady, wife of a diplomat. Mr. Deming was deputy ambassador to Japan. Once we see her and talk with her, we will be able to know how intelligent and capable she is by her prompt and graceful way of talking and walking. She must be a great president of HSA with her leadership.
She drove us to the hotel and warned us that we must not go out at night because the hotel was next to a dangerous zone. She also said that she was going to invite us to dinner at a famous prestigious country club that evening.
The hotel was incredibly cheap, but not so bad as we expected. We learned about the real American way of living there. We had two more hours for check-in. The toilet rooms on the lobby, the elevators and the hotel front desk, everything for many people were locked and we needed our own card key to enter them. Safety and water is just like air provided for us in Japan, but here in the States, we have to protect ourselves. I could hear shot sounds outside the hotel at midnight for the two nights.

The fifth key word: self-defense

When we were killing time until the check-in time, Andrea turned up all the way from Pittsburgh. Andrea was the first Shiki Internet Haiku Contest winner. The prize was tickets to Matsuyama. The Shiki team invited her in July 1996 on the star festival day and had an interesting event with the help of some volunteer groups. We served several kinds of special Matsuyama dishes which Masaoka Shiki used to eat as his favorite foods, which were mentioned in his essay, "Gyoga Manroku". Andrea stayed with our friend, Mrs. Mukai in Matsuyama. She enjoyed Matsuyama and Japan fully. This time in return for our invitation, she offered her time to us as a volunteer guide in Washington. She is now taking Ph.D. course at the University of Pittsburgh. She has become an even more charming and attractive woman than before. She must have something good in her recent life. She began to organize a student haiku group in the college.

After we had checked in to the hotel room, we were guided to the periphery of the White House by Andrea. Again, spacious. Even the grand White House looked small in the spacious green park. The early autumn sky was clear, crisp and very blue. The flags of the Stars and Stripes were fluttering against the blue sky. Grand buildings stands along the streets, and some tourists with different ethnic backgrounds were walking slowly, some business people were walking fast and some homeless men were strolling and shouting. Spacious and diverse. We walked to the Washington Tower Monument and walked back to the hotel. Even if we walked only a few blocks, we felt as if we had walked through the whole town. Worn out.


The sixth and seventh word: spacious and diverse
haiku:

early autumn
The Stars and Stripes is fluttering on
the top of the White House
One of the most exciting nights during our summer trip. We were invited to the gorgeous country club, the Chaby Chase Country Club by Mrs. Deming. It is a high society membership club. The entrance was like the hall of a palace. Chandeliers on the ceiling and magnificent paintings on the wall, soft arm chairs and elegant floor lamps, flowers in the vase----and lovely music!! We could see elegant couples dressed up with ties and long skirts , hand in hand.--. Hiromi was brave enough to wear sports shoes and a T-shirt. He had only casual clothes during the trip. The place was too formal and superior for us. Unfortunately, or luckily for us, the main restaurant, where a party was being held with a performance of an ensemble, was all reserved for the party group, so we had to go to an attached restaurant which was a little casual for the people who enjoyed tennis or other sports in the court. The food was good, but we were already too worn out and nervous to eat. Our stomachs seemed just to request a rest.


The spacious lawn garden was in the twilight of the setting sun. There were various kinds of autumn grasses and flowers, some of which are familiar in Japan, bigger sized, though. After dark the sound of insects chirping grew reverberating to the spacious surroundings. American crickets may be much bigger. Most American people are not interested in the autumn insect chirping, but Kristen used to enjoy the sound in Japan, so she seemed to be sensitive to everything related to the transience of the seasons e and inspired to compose haiku. The moment reminded her of Japanese culture, for which she felt nostalgic

I talked with her about haiku. She has learned so much about Japanese culture. She may know Japanese traditional literature and history better than ordinary Japanese people. I had to make a great effort to catch up with her level both in English and cultural knowledge. It was regrettable that there was a little language barrier between us, but on the whole I had a tremendously happy and enjoyable time. I was just on cloud nine.



haiku:

white benches
colored by the setting sun
chorus of crickets reverberates

September 11

In the morning we took a walk and had a nice buffet style breakfast at a
restaurant near the hotel. The price was reasonably low and the food was just what we wanted. After breakfast we went to Kristen's father in-law's home. It was a typical Georgian style house. He used to be a consul in Okinawa and he was very interested in collecting Japanese antiques. All the rooms were neat and well decorated by these collections. It was like a small exhibition hall. The second floor was a special guest room with a balcony which was designed after a Japanese garden. We could hear cicadas singing.

Ellen Compton had waited for us. She is a writer and a keen haiku poet. She was also a member of HSA delegate of the Japan -U.S. haiku conference at Tokyo and at the reception party I sat next to her and we talked with each other. She came to Matsuyama ,too.Å@We were both excited and pleased to meet again.


Kristin and Ellen were our volunteer guides that morning. We went to the Lincoln Memorial. It is built of grand marble stones. The statue of Lincoln was again splendid and magnificent . I was very impressed to see his big smile and fingers which shows a sign language. In memory of our encounter and reunion we took a picture of the Shiki team and American haiku poets in front of the statue of Lincoln. Far opposite in the distance stands the majestic Washington Memorial Tower. The two great men were really giants.

Between the two giants' monuments lies the reflecting pool into which Forrest Gump jumped. A Refreshing late summer breeze was gently rubbing the surface of the pool and made peaceful ripples. On the side of the pool some geese were standing in a line and others were swimming over the fine ripples leisurely. They were enjoying a short time of peace. Looking at some little squirrels sometimes hopping and running on the green bank beside the promenade, we took a walk along the pool under the shade of the trees, talking about haiku concept and how to appreciate Japanese traditional art and its aesthetic space. The walk was a kind of ginko, a haiku walk.



The eight key word:
giants

haiku:
going a round between
the memorials of the two giants
summer breeze


Kristen sent me her haiku that she had composed at that time.

Lincoln Memorial:
autumn clarity
cutting deep into marble


The discussion about haiku literature was very informative and inspiring at lunch. Both Kristen and Ellen are great. They are very active busy women, but they were very kind to take time to meet us. Thanks to them our trip became very fruitful.

Andrea was our afternoon guide. Although we were very tired, we could not miss American culture. We went to the Space Science Museum. We saw models of space shuttles and some other space ships. Andrea gave me a souvenir of space ice cream. The museum is full of information on space and we can share the astronauts experience through some exhibits and models, but my curiosity gave in to my feet's pain. I really understood why American people worked hard to invent roller skates shoes and cars.

The ninth word: generosity
Andrea had found a very good Brazilian restaurant. It was terrific!! The American Brazilian food was very delicious, and beers were also very fragrant and tasty. Finally we were fully satisfied with the American(?) cooking at the end of our trip. Perhaps first we had been nervous and now we felt relieved to complete our schedule and relax. So our stomachs began to work again. We asked Andrea to answer the questionnaire about her haiku experience. That was our last job.

She gave us a ride to our hotel. We were very surprised to see her very big car-key which resembled the Japanese short metal truncheon in the Edo period. We had to realize again that self-defense is important. We had to say good by to Andrea,now. She was really cute and kind.

September 12 Departure from Washington D.C.
Now we were on our way back to Japan. We got up at 3:00 a.m. and left the hotel at 4:00 a.m. Since our flight was very early from Kennedy Airport which was far from the hotel, our taxi dove along the high way at full speed in the dark.

The plane flew over the vast continent which has extensive plain fields, deserts, rugged mountains, and lakes. It was flying across over diverse lands further and further. Under my eyes the land was never ending. Our plane landed on Cincinnati, Seattle and Portland, where Sumi and Hiromi had arrived earlier. At Portland Airport we were informed that Sumi's and Hiromi's tickets were overbooked and they would not have seats.

They would not be able to return with us!! It must have been the DELTA Airline’s fault. But the women-clerks at DELTA counter were busy announcing to ask volunteers to stay in Portland, which would be paid for by DELTA. If the same thing were to happen in Japan, the airline people would be desperately busy apologizing and explaining to take responsibility, but the DELTA ladies never apologized and looked very firm so that passengers would not be able to complain or protest.

They are used to having such problems. Sumi was supposed to have an important class on 16, so he had to go back home as soon as possible, but Hiromi seemed to be happy to stay alone. As usual some seats were canceled, so finally after an hour all double booked seats were open and all members could go back to Japan together as scheduled.

The tenth key word: no apology


Across the Pacific Ocean again, we at last got back to Narita. The trip was great. We were welcomed by many kind people. The intelligent cultural discussion inspired us a lot. Seeing a different culture deepened my life. I was almost overwhelmed by the energy of the huge country, and all I wanted to do at Narita Airport was to lie down on futon and sleep at full length.
Plain, mixed, huge, friendly, self-defense,spacious, diverse, giants, generosity and no apology were the key words for me to understand the U.S. on my own.
We are very grateful to all the friends we met in the US for taking time with us. We are pleased to know haiku is spreading into the States and we can share the moment to appreciate natural beauty with each other. We put the questionnaire on our web page, too. Up to now we have received over 100 replies from all over the world. Haiku is really a symbol of international peace and understanding.

I hope that my personal impressions are observations of life in the U.S. for only a week are interesting to you even if you feel that they are not always completely accurate.

P.S. Professor Yu Chang was kind enough to send me a Christmas Present, beautiful red
roses from the STATES. I was overjoyed. The picture below is kim in Matsuyama with Yu's roses.